I did something unusual the other day..
daycruz
in Some things to think about
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I work a night shift.
Let me rephrase that.
I work a late night shift. 7:30 PM to 8:00 AM to be exact. I work for a large company that requires me to wear a white mummy-like suit over my clothes before I head in to my work area. When it gets to around 6:15 in the morning, it comes time for me to take my last break. A little breather actually, when I head out and just hang out in the cubicle. At this point, I am so incredibly tired that I am hallucinating and talking to myself. This morning, something happened that really made me think the entire morning. I'm pretty sure I wasn't hallucinating...
I was done with my break and heading back into my work area when I noticed something unusual. I saw the most gorgeous girl that I have ever seen. She was standing at her locker and getting her things together. I think I must have been in awe for at least thirty seconds. Now please understand, this isn't lust or something. I really didn't feel like that. It was just amazing to see an absolutely beautiful girl. Then I walked on. I didn't stop and talk to her. I didn't look at her for another second. I just walked on. Usually, I would have stopped and said hello. I would have initiate something, not because I wanted a relationship but just because I enjoy talking to members of the opposite sex.
It just felt like there was no reason to stop and introduce myself to her. What had attracted me was her almost perfect beauty. Not something she had said or done, not any sort of personality. I would have loved to gotten to know her. But really, what's the point?
Here's how I plan to get married:
A. I meet a wonderful Christian girl, who I absolutely adore-- and we meet her parents and we meet our parents. They approve, and we get married.
B. My parents and family members find in their universal database a decent match for myself. A meeting gets set up-- the girl and I meet; we like each other. They approve, and we get married.
I sometimes wonder how it would have been if I were born in a different family. I sometimes envy my American friends who seemingly have no constraints on them as they go about their daily lives. The plethora of societal, cultural, religious values that come into my equation doesn't come into theirs. I have to consider all of the above mentioned values to even think about a girl that I meet. But then I take a look at my parents who just completed twenty-eight years of marriage yesterday. And I am amazed. How they got married is probably quite different from how my sister got married and how I will get married in the future. I don't believe they talked to each other very much before the big day. They sure didn't go on any romantic dates. But seeing them today really gives me confidence that committing choices like these to the hand of God would be a prudent decision.
Now, many young people out there would jump at me and accuse me of taking the traditional route. I agree. I am taking a very traditional route but with a twist. A lot of young people do not realize that the dating game in the United States is not what it was 40-50 years ago. Individuals courted rather than date. When one went out on a date with someone- it was understood that this relationship would be a long term deal. Too many young Malayalee teens look at the culture portrayed on American television today and falsely assume that the self-gratification lifestyle has always existed. They are wrong to believe that shows like "Elimidate", "Blind Date", "Fifth Wheel", or any other processed trash represents what America has been for the past decades. The problem that comes up when we discuss situations like this is that the parents don't realize it either. Parents completely outlaw dating just for the sake of filtering out a foreign culture without explaining the real purposes behind the set boundaries.
Now, I've talked a lot about dating here. But what do I really believe? Pastor K. Joy put it best at my sister's wedding (an arranged marriage, by the way) when he gave a great statement: "Don't spend your life looking for the best partner, spend your life being the best partner." Sometimes the downfall of dating is that we search around for someone who we think is right for us. We forget about our character and how much instruction and guidance we really need before we can make correct choices ourselves. We see life as a competition with the end goal being a victory with the trophy. This trophy is something we can't put on our television along with the other fifty trophies we recieved from Sunday School anniversaries, rather it is an individual we spend the rest of our lives with. What if we were to be that trophy? If we identified things about ourselves that were not according to scripture or the will of God? If we were to correct ourselves in different aspects of our lives, God will provide us with the right partner at the right time. I sincerely believe that your parents have to have a direct role in finding you your soulmate. Why make it hard on ourselves? God has given us guides on this earth to help us. What I mean by this is that, what ever choice you make-- whether it is through your search or your parents, no decision should be made without the approval of the parents. My suggestions to those who currently date in secret (from their parents) is to hold off their relationship, hand it over to God and just be patient about it.
But Malayalee Pentecostals have a tendency which drives their children insane. Approving tradition for the sake of tradition. Having done the same thing for centuries doesn't necessarily make it the right thing to do or the only correct way to do things. Some parents apparently have a hard time adjusting away from this attitude. This is why they sometimes shun any thought of their child finding their spouse on their own. If they were to set some boundaries and limits while allowing their adult offspring to make decisions like this, it would relieve a lot of the stress between the two generations.
I listened to Ravi Zacharias speak the other day about love and relationships. I He gave what I believe is one of the most consequential messages in modern time about men and women. The talk was aptly titled: "I, Issac, take thee, Rebekah" I encourage every young Malayalee teen to listen to this message. It will profoundly change your life.
Let me offer a quick conclusion. Malayalee teens and parents have been fighting the wrong battle and for the wrong reasons. It is time to stop looking at American or Indian traditions to find the answers and just look straight to the word of God.
I never did end up talking to that girl. I know somewhere out there, there is a woman that God has prepared for me. And God is preparing me for her as we speak. Perhaps my parents will find her, perhaps I will. Until then, I will not restrict God's vision for me. Rather, I shall do more to find His will and follow it.
UPDATES: I changed some of grammar mistakes and spelling errors. I still think there some in there that I need to fix. Here is the website for Ravi Zacharias's sermons. Just scroll down and look for I, Issac, Take Thee, Rebekah. I sincerely encourage all of you, parents and young people alike to read it.
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Response: I did something unusual today
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For the most part I agree with ur post. However I find it difficult to believe your statement below:
"I sincerely believe that your parents have to have a direct role in finding you your soulmate. Why make it hard on ourselves? God has given us guides on this earth to help us."
While this maybe true for most parent-child relationships, I find that there are circumstances where parents are not fully aware of their childs personality, likes , or dislikes.
My parents happen to fit that very mold. Until very recently my mom did not realize that my "happiness" had a direct correlation to my need for independence. My parents viewed me as any typical Indian girl, who would get married; have children and basically settle down before reaching the 26-27 age marker.
So, on their quest to find "potential mates" for me, they tried to set me with various suitors that wanted an ideal Indian girl- this of course was not me. Recently, my parents began to realize that I had plans and goals set in place for myself-- that i need a companion/someone who could understand my need for independence- someone, that would be willing to nurture and accept that.
Now Cruz, try adding that into your "plethora of societal, cultural, religious values". It is very difficult, I'd say to be an Indian female that does not fit that norm. I wouldn't say I'm a social disgrace, but then again there are time I feel as if I am. Other times, I believe that there are more females such as me who feel precisely the same way. Perhaps, I'm the first of many to start this new trend or classification-- Indian women who thrive on independence; goal oriented and are not willing to subdue or compromise to pressures from our malu society.
Is that wrong? are there neg. consequences to this, maybe. But I'd say you will never know if the grass is greener on the other side, if you don't take closer look. (in most cases.) lol
What do you say to that Cuz? =)
What you wrote above, absolulty beautiful! I praise God for helping me find this site and see that at least one Malayalee youth is in tune to the Scriptures. Scripture is our foundation, but we are obligated to follow our parents wishes whether we like it or not. No where in the Bible is dating mentioned as positive. In fact, whenever we see a man and women run off together the end result is failure and destruction, example, Samson.
May God continue to use you
your humble brother in Christ
Pastor S. Thomas
What are you talking about? Millions of European Christians decide that they want to spend their lives together,get married & stay married. They don't 'run away' because they don't need to -it's not taboo in their culture to make marital decisions themselves.They are adults and can make their own decisions.
Have you considered why Indians stay married despite being unhappy -specifically the women? It's because of the same societal norms that restrict and try to control them that keep them in these bonds.
Among Americans and your "European Christians" how many marriages stick together. Now also in India, the divorce rate is rapidly increasing, because young people go after their own wants. Shalini, if you want to date and go about the "European Christian" ways that is your buisness. What befuddles me is that the Jewish child is proud to keep his culture, the Latino child is proud to keep their culture, but the Malayalee child wants to break away.
In God's unfailing love I ask you, Shalini, reread Scripture before you argue. Who said Malayalee marriages are unhapy? we actually understand the committmant behind it. I am not generalizing there are many Americans who have happy marriages, but the majority do not. And if there is one thing God hates it's divorce! Read Malichi.
In His Service
Pastor S. Thomas
I am not going to preach to you about marriage. But your comments above clearly show that your are a bit ignorant about some facts.
I will pose some questions to you and to anybody willing to answer, if you are willing answer it and back up your statement. What DayCruz said above was very admirable and correct, a young man with guts!
1.) When European missionaries came to Kerala, why did they say "surely this is God's own land and people"? Obviously they saw something special.
2.) Ask your parents if there were any divorces in Kerala during their childhood and before as there is now?
3.) In Keralite marriages, the son or daughter does have a say in who he is marrying do they not? The parents just work things out.
I will repeat again, Malayalees marriages are not hanging by a strand because of "societal norms that restrict and try to control them that keep them in these bonds". Malayalees are a blessed group of people both in culture and tradition, don't let your minds stray away from Biblical truths for the present culture.
In His Service
Pastor S. Thomas
P.S. If it sounds like i'm angry, i am not, just disappointed that the youth are so easily swayed into assimilation. I know it's hard hold on to culture, I studied and grew up here too. But by God's grace we will remain for God's culture.
Once again, I feel we are fighting the wrong battle here. Shalini does have a point when she says that a lot of Indian women are trapped in unhappy and abusive marriages but can not divorce because of cultural restraints. It is not a question of culture. I hope I did not give that impression. I sincerely feel it is a question of submitting to God's will in your life. If your parents approve of you dating or searching around to find a spouse. That's great. That's exactly what should happen in that situation. Issac, you do have to live with a decision. But the decision is yours.. and yours alone. Shalini, perhaps European marriages wasn't the best example. Family values in Europe are dissappearing at an incredible rate. I'm not blaming dating- because that's not the problem. The problem is a real lack of spiritual identity. Europe used to be a region where people got married for life. Same thing here in the United States. And these people "dated" also. Pastor S., I understand the arguments you are making about Keralite culture. I love my culture, but I will not make any sort of ethnocentric suggestion that my culture is the best. There are bad and good aspects to all cultures, we have to find the things that fall in line with Scripture and stick to it. Dating? All for it, if it is line with Biblical standards. Arranged marriage? All for it, if it is in line with Biblical standards. And yes, both can be.
I was attracted to this site because I wanted updates on the Shibu Mathai story; you kids really know how to reel in an old uncool man like me! I was looking over your site and I realized I did not understand any of your Internet lingo, signs of my age I guess.
May God richly bless you Day Cruz, Jerry, Ashish, Bobby.
Your brother in the family of Christ
Pastor S. Thomas
Shalini, no bad feelings I hope, it is in God's love. I want to hear your response God will reveal His culture to you. Just wait.
"No where in the Bible is dating mentioned as positive. In fact, whenever we see a man and women run off together the end result is failure and destruction, example, Samson."
I used the term European Christians (incorrectly) to classify the Spanish,Italian Catholics & various Orthodox sects. They do not have restrictions on dating (which is what I thought the Pastor's statement above implied), and "running off" is a moot point except in rural areas, because it's your choice & your life.Are you suggesting that these people have led lifes of failure & destruction?
The Malayalee culture has it's strengths and weaknesses. We need to accept that and move on.
And to respond to your questions:
1.) When European missionaries came to Kerala, why did they say "surely this is God's own land and people"? Obviously they saw something special.
Yeah they probably saw sufficient resources and people to exploit. The Church did not become one of the richest institutions in the world because of offertories.
2.) Ask your parents if there were any divorces in Kerala during their childhood and before as there is now?
Yes and this is my point. I grew up watching numerous women (aunts, grandmothers, my mother) in marriages where they do not have a say in things that mattered to them & they were unhappy. I call it emotional abuse by the men of this society who use religion and culture to guilt women into submission. There were fewer divorces back in the day because
-women didn't have the financial backing to support themselves
-didn't know what their rights were
-divorcees were ostracized by the society they lived in and hence chose to live in unhappy marriages.
I'm not saying divorce is a good thing or that dating someone is a guarantee to a happy married life. I'm saying don't fool yourself and turn a blind eye to the women suffering in these marriages and assume that having more married people than divorced people is a sign of a healthy society.
Anyhow, with the high rate of literacy and consequent economic empowerment Indian & Malayalee women have attained, they're in a much better position to make decisions for their future. They can decide for themselves what aspects of their culture and religion are important to hold onto and we in the Christian spirit can refrain from judging.
3.) In Keralite marriages, the son or daughter does have a say in who he is marrying do they not? The parents just work things out.
In the arranged marriages I've seen, the parents' do cursory checks to ensure that the families are respectable and make the decisions. As 'Enigma Nonetheless' alluded to, Malayalee parents' rarely know what their kids likes,dislikes, dreams and such are. You're basically throwing them into a cage and hoping that the culture,religion..etc will be strong enough to hold them together. You're not ensuring that there are sufficient grounds for love to grow.
Thanks for responding. Your point is well taken, however in malayalee Pentecostal families I do not see women suffering under the pressure of staying in a marriage. Moreover, that is marriage; the phrase "till death do us part" is taken seriously. Shalini, if you were to line up the statistics for arranged marriages and marriages that were based on dating and eloping, I assure you that arranged marriages are 10 times LESS likely to divorce. I am not debating for the sake of debating; I am seeing this first hand.
If your parents don't know your likes and dislikes, you have some serious issues with your parents. They know allot more about you than they show. If your parents don't know your aspirations, folks there are some serious communication problems.
Now are there arranged marriages that end in "failure and destruction"? sure. It is because they did not put the proper prayer and spiritual dedication behind the marriage, period. If God has really joined them, nothing can break them apart. That's why I say Pentecostal malayalee marriages WERE such a blessing. There was no spur of the moment. Let me tell from my point of view, as Malayalee parents we believe that dating is a relationship that people have which is based on lust, God has no part in 99.9% of dating.
Shalini, I'm not asking you drastically change your viewpoints, but I am asking you to consider where you stand. Please pray about this, and the Almighty will reveal His truth.
Young men and women who read these postings, if you are dating or are considering making marital plans without God, get on your knees now, so you can avoid shedding tears later. Understand that while you may want the freedom to chose, remember who you are -A chosen generation, His own special people, can you live a life of separation? It's your call....
With Prayer
Pastor S. Thomas
There is nothing wrong with dating as long as the parents know about it. There is nothing wrong with dating, if both the kids had the intention of getting to know each other as Christians better and not know each other's bodies better! Parents now do allow their kids to get to know each other (of course under their watchful eye) before they make the decision of their lives. So my argument is blind-dating or dating-without-letting-the-parents-know is truly a sin as it most probably a fruit of lust from within.
bobby .........
You may think now parents are blindly enforcing principles, but you will realize their not only when you get older.
Bobby, in how many dating relationships is Christ the center focus? I studied at a Christian university and even back then that was rare.
Folks you don't need to agree me, but I know every one of you will turn your opinions as you get more older, and wiser. You will create a protective barrier around your children and look out for their best and expect perfection from them. If you only had children to realize the joy put in your heart, and the love you surround them with.
Kids if your reading this and still in a doubt about dating, read the Bible, it could not be anymore clear.
Your fellow brother in the Church of Christ
Pastor S. Thomas
so you just can't make up rules in regards to how one should find their mate, .....because life is not so simple, ...we all find ourselves in different situations.
Isaac, will a marriage without parental guidance and intervention be a success? Kids, don't fool with the truth. If you have a problem with Pentecostal Malayalee culture, speak up now. I have a feeling that this issue stretches past simply dating and marriage.
Isaac, nobody is making up rules, the Bible lays down the rule and don't think your situation is different and unique. People have it worse than you. I have heard Caucasian children cry out that they wish their parents would be more involved in their lives.
If you want to go out and date because your "situation" is different, go, but realize that your parents are shedding tears behind closed doors. They are praying for you at midnight, when you think they’re sleeping. Honor your parent’s tears, they brought you to America so you can have a successful future, don't put God and them to shame.
But as for me personally, I moved from the cozy comfort of my Gulf home and my Mom & Dad and Mom's awesome cooking at the age of 14!! Yes 14 ... from then on it's been a life on my own in Bombay and the US now. But one thing my parents can tell you is that I have never done anything drastic without the knowledge of my parents or if I felt my parents shouldn't know about it I made sure they knew about it later. When we have our differences, we talk it out over the phone. We explain our stand and we try & resolve it acc. to the scriptures.
Now coming back to the point about the communication gap among some parents & their kids, since I have lived in these other homes during my single life, I have clearly seen how some Dads & Moms do not sit down and explain their principles & policies that they are trying to enforce in their Christian family. If I can still fear my Dad & Mom's wrath inspite of me being this mature and 1000's of miles away from them, it is only 'cos I respect them for their experience and their knowledge. THIS IS NOT THE CASE FOR SOME YOUTH OUT THERE!! That is the point I want you to accept. Some parents just dont know why they stand for what they preach. They just make the girl agree to the fact that the "suitable groom" in question is from a Godly background with good family backgrounds! A girl has every right to sort this out with her parents (ofcourse she had to do it with respect for the parents position in their lives at the same time).
If I'm not mistaken you have twice mentioned how if a child of God goes out and does something on his/her own without the consent or approval of his/her parents, his/her life in the future ends in heartbreak. Well I can list out (of course which I won't do) 2 separate homes where the Moms/housewives dont open their mouth when the Dads are talking/arguing because they know their word though right or scriptural won't be accepted by the Dads. One of them turned to me & even told me a proverb which is common in Malayalam regarding her own husband, which I've never heard before, "A dog's tail will always be curled, how much ever you try to straighten it" Now you tell me, is this marriage that the parents are experiencing one of complete harmony. I see it more of an epitome of submission to the other till death do them part, rather than an epitome of love!
Let's move on ... Why shouldn't a child of God fall in love with another child of God? You say ... Huh?!? Ofcourse a child of God can fall in love with another child of God. But actually my question was a disguised version of - Why shouldn't an Indian girl fall in love with a black Christian guy? Altogether another issue right? I know ... but all I'm saying is ... unless the parents have the facts right and the reasons crystal-clear without hiding anything back from their children ... this communication gap is here to stay! So ... as Decruz said unless the parents & the kids go back to the scriptures and explain their stand or their differences with Christ at the center of the discussion this communication gap is here to stay.
(I'm sorry but this topic is probably something that I can write pages and pages on ....) Anyways have a wonderful Lord's day tomorrow ... make the aroma that rises from your church upto the Lord our God even sweeter by taking part in praise & worship!
Are the parents always right, no, that much I will admit. Can they be headstrong, sure, I know I am. The communication gap is a failure that parents must accept. They come and go to work, failing to realize their child's minds. If you want to discuss that last issue you brought up about the Indian girl with the guy of African descent, I’m up for that, but it's your call.
Your previous point about the example of a marriage and whether it was in complete harmony. Even in the most perfect marriage there will be squabbles, and to the outside person it might look serious, but every marriage has its arguments. The point is that godly marriages and parent directed marriages are not prone to divorce than marriages that began with dating.
Thanks bj, I know you will have a good fellowship, God be with you
With prayer
Pastor S. Thomas
Abraham-Sarah = same father
Isaac-Rebecca = 1st cousins
Jacob-Leah/Rachel = 1st cousins
Gen 24:3 And I will make thee swear by the LORD, the God of heaven, and the God of the earth, that thou shalt not take a wife unto my son of the daughters of the Canaanites, among whom I dwell:
Gen 24:4 But thou shalt go unto my country, and to my kindred, and take a wife unto my son Isaac.
Once again, God does not want his people to intermingle, whether you think that is racist or not that is a fact. Isaac (Biblical one) was very upset that Esau had married from the Gentiles.
Abraham lived in Ur of the Chaldeans a very immoral city; he could have easily married on of them.
But because God chose him, he chose to be separate.
Jacob went and took wives on his own, Rachel and Leah. He never loved Leah, but Rachel. But Rachel was the one who died early, during childbirth. Jacob's life was full of heartbreak.
Dinah, Jacobs’s daughter is another example read about her in Genesis 34.
If you want to be a rebel, fine, but remember this:
"Now consider this you who forget God, lest I tear you in pieces and there be none to deliver" Psalm 50:22
I am not calling any of you Godless, I am not higher than you, God knows my heart.
Finally Isaac, if God told me directly that I should marry a cousin, I would because the Almighty told me and he has a purpose behind it. Instead God has given me a beautiful Godly wife, and now we have been married happily for 21 years.
Hope I got my point across to you, even in American culture God is calling us to remain separate. You kids are probably getting tired of me so I will stop here, may God use this generation to enlighten the world.
With prayer
Pastor S. Thomas